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Science

Drugged Honeybees Do the Time Warp 103

Posted by Unknown Lamer from the wasn't-i-just-in-the-hive? dept.
sciencehabit writes "Waking up from surgery can be disorienting. One minute you're in an operating room counting backwards from 10, the next you're in the recovery ward sans appendix, tonsils, or wisdom teeth. And unlike getting up from a good night's sleep, where you know that you've been out for hours, waking from anesthesia feels like hardly any time has passed. Now, thanks to the humble honeybee, scientists are starting to understand this sense of time loss. New research shows that general anesthetics disrupt the social insect's circadian rhythm, or internal clock, delaying the onset of timed behaviors such as foraging and mucking up their sense of direction."
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Drugged Honeybees Do the Time Warp More

Drugged Honeybees Do the Time Warp

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  • Not Rocky?! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by slimjim8094 ( 941042 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2012 @03:20AM (#39708087)

    Damn, was expecting something quite different from the title.

    • Re:Not Rocky?! (Score:5, Funny)

      by zombie_striptease ( 966467 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2012 @03:45AM (#39708155)

      Seriously, especially since bees are thought to communicate chiefly through dance!

    • Not Rocky
      Rocky Horror
      If you're gonna take anesthetic, go to the zen room, you'll love it

      (Riff Raff) It's astounding
      Time is fleeting
      Madness takes its toll...

      (Magenta) Ahh...

      (Riff Raff) But listen closely...

      (Magenta) Not for very much longer...

      (Riff Raff) I've got to keep control.
      I remember doing the Time Warp.
      Drinking those moments when
      The blackness would hit me.

      (Riff Raff & Magenta) And the void would be calling.

      (Guests) Let's do the Time Warp again.
      Let's do the Time Warp again.

      (Narrator) It's just a ju

  • I had always assumed that things like light levels were more to blame. That, and one of the first things I do when waking in the morning is look at a clock. When I went under to get my wisdom teeth out I awoke with no time-telling device handy to immediately know how long it had been. Of course I was also slowly coming out of literally being drugged out of my mind, so who knows...

    • Re:Natural Clues (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Chatsubo ( 807023 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2012 @07:51AM (#39708763)

      My anecdote would be one time I nodded off for a nap, and woke to orange light outside my window, my watch indicating around 7 o'clock. I suddenly 'realized' I'd overslept and leapt from my bed in a frenzy trying to get ready for work, I rushed into the kitchen going "I'm late!"..... when my stunned S/O pointed out that it's "7 pee em" and my sense of time started to return, I had to completely re-orient myself. I looked down and foolishly realised I was already dressed, and she was making dinner, not breakfast.

      I don't think we really are able to track time when asleep, we just assume when we wake up it must be morning because we've been doing it all our lives. At least, that's what happened to me that time.

    • Our local hospital has a clock on the wall opposite the beds in both the prep room and the recovery room. I don't know if it's intentional but when I had emergency surgery I was not disoriented afterwards.

    • Natural clews help get your time straight. However even without them you know that you have been asleep for hours. When I went under anesthesia And I woke up, it was like nothing happenend. My imeadeat response wasn't what time is it. But how did I get here. As I figured it was only a minute from when they started.

      That said I got nitro when my wisdom teeth were removed, time did pass I just really didn't care. As some point I gathered enough sence to see how things were doing and I was thing wow they are r

  • General for Wisdom Teeth? (Score:3)

    by jamesh ( 87723 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2012 @03:23AM (#39708099)

    Unless your Wisdom Teeth are completely buried in your gums, get them done in the dentist chair under a local and don't be a wimp.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Mine came in fast and severely impacted (more horizontal than vertical) and I was not about do it exclusively on a local. Why would anyone? Just so they "wouldn't be a wimp?" Fuck that noise. I'll take an anesthetic cocktail any time someone offers me one.

    • Mine -were- completely buried in my gums and I wasn't put under. Recovery sucked somewhat, but the surgery was fine.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ledow ( 319597 )

      I had all four wisdom teeth removed simultaneously, along with a shed-load of baby/milk teeth that refused to budge aged 18. I required surgery for something else that needed the milk teeth gone (because the adult teeth pushing through would have just wiped out the benefits of the surgery otherwise) and in the process they saw four wisdom teeth that also had to come out (same reason - them pushing through would have altered the position of everything in my mouth).

      To do that, they had to break my jaw and cl

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jamesh ( 87723 )

        I respect the use of a general anaesthetic where they are taking most of your face apart. I'm just talking about a routine tooth extraction. My "wimp" comment was an attempt at humour - i'm terrified of general anaethetics. I had one when i was about 4 (grommets) which was "blink and you miss it", one when I was 12 (appendix) which was followed by hours of vomiting and weeks of feeling really really sick, and one when I was about 30 (correct a deviated nasal septum and fix up some other nasal blockages) whi

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cffrost ( 885375 )

          I had one when i was about 4 (grommets) which was "blink and you miss it", one when I was 12 (appendix) which was followed by hours of vomiting and weeks of feeling really really sick, and one when I was about 30 (correct a deviated nasal septum and fix up some other nasal blockages) which was also followed by lots of unpleasentness. None of those would have had the general marked as "optional".

          Pfff... Wuss. I had a triple-bypass with a swig of whiskey and a stick to bite on.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jamesh ( 87723 )

            I had one when i was about 4 (grommets) which was "blink and you miss it", one when I was 12 (appendix) which was followed by hours of vomiting and weeks of feeling really really sick, and one when I was about 30 (correct a deviated nasal septum and fix up some other nasal blockages) which was also followed by lots of unpleasentness. None of those would have had the general marked as "optional".

            Pfff... Wuss. I had a triple-bypass with a swig of whiskey and a stick to bite on.

            You had a stick? I used to dream of having a stick to bite on! I had to gnaw on my own fingers until they were nothing but bone!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cffrost ( 885375 )

        [...] I had my toenails removed [...]

        'Nam?

    • My wisdom teeth were at a 90 degree angle from what they should have been, which made the surgery much more fun and interesting.

      When I broke my leg (shattered lower part of my tib/fib, required inserting a rod through my bone and several screws), they shot something in my spine that made me unconscious instantly. Best damned anesthetic ever - took five people to hold me upright while they administered it and I was out before I felt the needle. I begged them to give me the same stuff for my second (less majo

      • they shot something in my spine that made me unconscious instantly

        No, they gave you some Versed before they gave you your spinal anesthetic. You were conscious, you just don't remember it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by azalin ( 67640 )
      All you need is a large enough mouth and some luck with their orientation. That way all you got to do, is wait till they are up and use them together with the other 28 to chew your dinner. No anesthetics needed whatsoever ;)

    • Fuck THAT.

      Mine were coming out of the damn sides of my gums. Dear freaking gods did that hurt, but I imagine not half as badly as after they'd been cut open to yank the fuckers out.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Greyfox ( 87712 )
      Yup did that. I remember watching the surgery in the reflection of his glasses until he took them off, commenting that he didn't need me throwing up in the middle of it. Fucker only gave me advil for afterwards too. A co-worker of mine some years later got percocet. Gyp! Another co-worker is a mutant whose super-power is apparently to not have wisdom teeth. We still need to do some evolving in the teeth area, but that's definitely a step in the right direction.

      • Yup did that. I remember watching the surgery in the reflection of his glasses until he took them off, commenting that he didn't need me throwing up in the middle of it. Fucker only gave me advil for afterwards too. A co-worker of mine some years later got percocet. Gyp! Another co-worker is a mutant whose super-power is apparently to not have wisdom teeth. We still need to do some evolving in the teeth area, but that's definitely a step in the right direction.

        The size of the jaw, the size of the teeth, the number of teeth... all driven by different parts of the genome. The dramatic increase in dental problems coincides with increased mobility and breeding outside the "tribe". You end up with folks with tiny asian jaws and giant nordic teeth, things like that.

        Wasn't that long ago that people generally didn't travel and bred with their second and third cousins, and they had less genetic problems with their teeth. Still had the problems that stem from primitive

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Greyfox ( 87712 )
          I'm pretty sure we can just decide to evolve in that direction! See! I'm evolving! Ungh! Ungh!

          Eeh you're right, unless it affects mortality rates things probably won't change that much. Unless we get a really lucky cosmic ray to the DNA, or something. Or some young feller from some biotech firm decides to refactor our genes. Doesn't help me much, but I have a list of design defects that I'm sure future generations could do without.

    • Yeah, I know some people who had theirs removed under a general and it always seemed to be based of a fear of the dentist's chair.

      Had mine removed in two sittings, right side and left side. That was so I could chew food on the "good" of my mouth and minimize the risk of complications/infections/whatever on the "recovering" side (I still had to follow the usual recommendation of cold, slushy food the first day and gradually go back to normal hot meals)

      Each time, the procedure didn't hurt at all, my jaw was p

    • Pretty much everyone's wisdom teeth are completely buried in their gums, aren't they? Mine sure as hell were, and I think one of them was growing sideways into my jaw or something.

      I don't know anyone who's had any of their wisdom teeth actually erupt.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jamesh ( 87723 )

        Pretty much everyone's wisdom teeth are completely buried in their gums, aren't they? Mine sure as hell were, and I think one of them was growing sideways into my jaw or something.

        I don't know anyone who's had any of their wisdom teeth actually erupt.

        My wife got hers out and they were all through, they just needed removing because they were pushing the rest of her teeth around.

        My top ones were fine because I had had some molars removed in my early teens. My bottom ones were mostly straight but still pushing on the teeth next to them. If i hadn't held my wife's hand when she was getting hers out 10 years earlier I might not have put off getting mine out for so long instead of waiting until they had pushed a hole in the tooth next to them :(

    • Oh screw the machismo crap. I was 15 when I had to have all four removed simultaneously, (they would've screwed up 5 years of orthodontics) I don't recall even being given a choice.
      I might've actually preferred local though; for one thing, I had already spent 5 years regularly visiting an orthodontist and a dentist for my severe maloclussion, (I used to make Bug Bunny look toothless by comparison) and nearly all of that was under nitro, not Novocaine. I was used to having hands and apparent devices of t

  • What they didn't delve into.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Metabolife ( 961249 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2012 @03:46AM (#39708159)

    ... was whether or not the clock returned to normal over time. Could a 3 hour surgery cause long-term insomnia?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Calydor ( 739835 )

      No more than jet lag does. A couple of days down the line and your body has re-adjusted to the sun's cues.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Circadian rhythms are phase-locked loops, driven (at least mostly, and in humans -- dunno about bees) by blue light (which sunlight has plenty of and wood fires, lamps, and candles don't), so if you're in an environment where it wouldn't resync after anesthesia, you're probably already in free-run (~25h cycles) and thus (if you don't live on Mars) experiencing at least mild insomnia. Try melatonin supplements, turning off lights, especially fluorescent, LED, or other high-CCT lights, in the evenings, and/o

  • Just a jump to the left? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Chas ( 5144 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2012 @04:02AM (#39708209) Homepage Journal

    I swear man!

    If I see any bees dressed in curly wigs, lingerie, fishnets and heels, I'm SO outta here!

    I refuse to be caught LIKE THIS!

  • Anesthesia stories (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AK Marc ( 707885 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2012 @04:27AM (#39708295)
    My disorientation is that I didn't "wake up" after my knee surgery so much as "get shaken until I threw up" followed by demands that I vacate the premises for the next person. The surgery ran over time due to a routine complication, and the conveyor-belt outpatient hospital didn't have enough recovery beds for me to wake naturally from the extended anesthesia. In the end, they wheeled me into the parking lot, vomiting the whole time.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Rakshasa-sensei ( 533725 )

      Learn to love Alaska [romancingalaska.com]

      Did you learn to love Alaska? Your story makes me a bit confused.

    • Re:Anesthesia stories (Score:4, Insightful)

      by isorox ( 205688 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2012 @05:52AM (#39708469) Homepage Journal

      My disorientation is that I didn't "wake up" after my knee surgery so much as "get shaken until I threw up" followed by demands that I vacate the premises for the next person. The surgery ran over time due to a routine complication, and the conveyor-belt outpatient hospital didn't have enough recovery beds for me to wake naturally from the extended anesthesia. In the end, they wheeled me into the parking lot, vomiting the whole time.

      But the republicans are always scoffing about how terrible the NHS is, and how your "pay $10k to give birth" methods are so much more civilised.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AK Marc ( 707885 )
        Well, compare our infant mortality rates to yours and get back to me.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cffrost ( 885375 )

        My disorientation is that I didn't "wake up" after my knee surgery so much as "get shaken until I threw up" followed by demands that I vacate the premises for the next person. The surgery ran over time due to a routine complication, and the conveyor-belt outpatient hospital didn't have enough recovery beds for me to wake naturally from the extended anesthesia. In the end, they wheeled me into the parking lot, vomiting the whole time.

        But the republicans are always scoffing about how terrible the NHS is, and how your "pay $10k to give birth" methods are so much more civilised.

        I'm pretty sure AK Marc isn't a Republican, AK notwithstanding.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AK Marc ( 707885 )
          I'm the only constitutional libertarian (long-term view) in the state. Apparently, that makes me a rabid right-wing nutjob to the Democrats, and a communist to the Republicans (and a socialist fascist to the Libertarians), so I must be doing something right.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by cffrost ( 885375 )

            I'm the only constitutional libertarian (long-term view) in the state. Apparently, that makes me a rabid right-wing nutjob to the Democrats, and a communist to the Republicans (and a socialist fascist to the Libertarians), so I must be doing something right.

            I like to read your posts and can't remember a single one I've disagreed with (I'm on your fan list); you're doing a lot right, AFAIC. :o)

            Regarding AK, I could have sworn you recently said you emigrated...? As for your anesthesia story, I'm sorry, it was so horrible I had to laugh. ;o(

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AK Marc ( 707885 )
              Wow, I feel so stalked. Yes, I moved out of the US. And am waiting for the US economy and politics to implode and recover so that I might come back. But I still own my family home in Alaska. And I'm planning on retiring on the Medetranian, I just have to manage to get the right citizenships in the next 30 years so I can do that, as even if the US collapses on my schedule, I have no idea how long after until it recovers.

              And, if I ever ran for public office, I'd be found to be a Republican. I've only ev
    • The duration of an anesthetic using modern meds does not much determine how long it takes you to recover. What you experienced is a return of memory-generating ability after your sedating dose of benzodiazepines wore off before you actually left the center.

  • I can help but imagine zonked bees saying "BzzZZzzzt!?" and flying into trees...

    • God damn it, you just had to say it out loud, didn't you?!

      It's like a Pixar movie playing in my head. MAKE IT STOP!!!!

  • ... and mucking up their sense of direction.

    When using these type of technically specific science terms, you should really specify the degree of mucking and define the term for the laymen.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cffrost ( 885375 )

      ... and mucking up their sense of direction.

      When using these type of technically specific science terms, you should really specify the degree of mucking and define the term for the laymen.

      Agreed. As a resident of New York, I'd also appreciate the fuck_up:muck_up conversion ratio being specified.

  • Sometimes I wonder about our science guys....why we need to study bees in their drugged state when we have plenty of capable people ready to drug themselves for free for our studies....

  • Okay so the honeybees wake up and don't know time has passed. How does knowing the same thing happens to bees help me understand what happened to me?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0OVpyvey4U [youtube.com]

    "When you're out with your friends
    In your new Mercedes-Benz
    And you're on drugs
    And you show up late for school
    'Cause you think you're really cool
    When you're on drugs
    And you put on your headphones
    And you step into the zone
    When you're on drugs
    But the world don't care
    If you are or are not there
    'Cause you're on drugs

    And you twitch in your seat
    'Cause you wanna hit the street
    When you're on drugs
    And you cause such a fuss
    'Cause there's no one you can trust
    When you're on drug

  • What is this about a bee's cicadian rhythms? Bees are nothing at all like cicadas!

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