Dying Man Shares Unseen Challenger Video 266
longacre writes "An amateur video of the 1986 Space Shuttle Challenger explosion has been made public for the first time. The Florida man who filmed it from his front yard on his new Betamax camcorder turned the tape over to an educational organization a week before he died this past December. The Space Exploration Archive has since published the video into the public domain in time for the 24th anniversary of the catastrophe. Despite being shot from about 70 miles from Cape Canaveral, the shuttle and the explosion can be seen quite clearly. It is unclear why he never shared the footage with NASA or the media. NASA officials say they were not aware of the video, but are interested in examining it now that it has been made available."
Speculation... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Speculation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would someone keep this private and/or secret for so long?
The launch and subsequent explosion were broadcast live on TV. I think if I'd shot it, I might have assumed that it was entirely redundant.
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yea why would you want to post something again when it has been already covered previously by others?
Mod me redundant please otherwise the joke doesn't work.
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Now mod him underrated, so we can get the first +5 Redundant.
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First +5 Redundant? You must be new here, the entire premise of /. is based on that score.
Also I have seen those types of scores here many times over. +5 Troll? Please, how about -1 Insightful.
Re:Speculation... (Score:4, Insightful)
+5 Troll?
Once a troll reaches +4, you need both fire *and* acid to kill it. Either that or magical fire / magical acid. If I remember correctly, +5 trolls regenerate all of their hp every round -- only a sadistic DM would throw that at his party.
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You'd also probably need to dust off those second edition books...
Re:Speculation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would someone keep this private and/or secret for so long?
Probably saw it on TV the next day and figured it nothing special. This was before the internet, and judging by the age of the guy, he probably never accessed much media beyond his neighbors and the local paper.
I don't remember NASA ever asking for other videos, and from the footage, it seemed that they had much higher quality stuff to analyze.
Then we get into the idea that this was a betamax camera, it is also possible that it sat in his things for years, and when his younger grandson or nephew realized what was on the tape, persuaded his granddad (great granddad?) to post it up to the internet/NASA.
Lots of valid reasons why this never saw the light of day until now, and I'm most comfortable with the idea that he never thought about it or thought he had anything special. He probably thought there were thousands of such videos from other amateurs in Florida.
Re:Speculation... (Score:5, Interesting)
I worked with an Indian guy that had to give the eulogy when his father passed away.
He talked about his father's life, and his father's position on Ghandi's staff when he was a younger man.
After the funeral the guy's kids asked him why he never told them Grandpa worked with Ghandi, when they still could have asked their Grandpa questions about it.
It just never came up.
Re:Speculation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it was his memory. It may have his comments on it while he watched. I was watching when it happened and my father found parts on the beach which we did turn in. Over all we just didn't talk about it much. It is kind of hard when you realize that you just saw seven people die in front of your eyes. It is some how different than when you see it on the news. Also that cloud just hung over us the entire day. It felt like it would never go away.
Actually even trying to post about that day is hard. So I can see putting it on a shelf and not taking it down until I knew I was going to die.
Re:Speculation... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Speculation... (Score:4, Insightful)
Challenger was the first shuttle launch I didn't watch, having moved back to Illinois. I'd gone outside for all of the previous shuttle launches, and we even drove to the cape to see a few. That thing is LOUD!
I was out looking for work when it happened, but it was traumatic for anyone, even just seeing it rebroadcast on TV (over and over) when I got home,so your point is well taken.
Where were you (Score:3, Interesting)
I was working at Rocketdyne on the Shuttle Main Engines at the time.
When the Challenger exploded we were told over the intercom that a "System Malfunction" happened on flight 51 and the phones went down. It was not until people went out for lunch that they found out really what happened. In the mean time guards came in and confiscated all the engine build log books to prevent someone from going in and "fixing" some data with the sudden realization of a serious error.
Spent the next year helping to prepare a
Re:Speculation... (Score:5, Informative)
It is kind of hard when you realize that you just saw seven people die in front of your eyes.
You didn't see them die. They survived the explosion, and were killed by impact with the water. The proof is that they initiated emergency procedures after the explosion.
Come to think of it, I don't suppose that makes you feel any better.
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Yup, I saw it live from the west coast. Still remember exactly where I was standing. A very sad day.
Re:Speculation... (Score:4, Interesting)
Still remember exactly where I was standing.
I do, too. I was sitting in my high school history class, and the teacher rolled in a TV so we could watch the broadcast. Come to think of it, this was probably one of the most important lessons I learned in school: our technology is impressive, but not infallible.
Re:Speculation... (Score:5, Funny)
I do, too. I was sitting in my high school history class, and the teacher rolled in a TV so we could watch the broadcast. Come to think of it, this was probably one of the most important lessons I learned in school: our technology is impressive, but not infallible.
Why, didn't the TV work?
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It is kind of hard when you realize that you just saw seven people die in front of your eyes.
I would also like to point out that some people have more reverence for the dead than others. And that this individual could have decided out of respect of the families of those deceased to withhold the tape from the replay replay replay replay that major news networks would undoubtedly subject it to. Following the initial interest and showing of the footage, a release would simply be played again on the news, reminding those with lost loved ones and the nation of its failure.
Some people don't believ
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It was low enough resolution and from far enough away that I doubt that it would have helped.
I remember that some soulless creep of a news person actually shot the families while the explosion happened. That should have never made it to broadcast.
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I would also like to point out that some people have more reverence for the dead than others.
Corollary: some people give up all their principles when they're about to die. If he released it before his death, he didn't really have that reverence, because any principles you give up in the face of death, you never really had.
I'm not trying to badmouth the guy at this phase; we don't really know anything about it. But if you're assuming he didn't release it on principle, then I feel there's a flaw in your logic.
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I remember as well. My father was an aeronautical engineer that worked on the main engines and related controls in the cabin (Honeywell was the contractor). I was in elementary school, and every launch he would get me a mission patch and autographs when he got to meet the crew. I was the king during show-and-tell.
Mike Smith's (captain) was the last autograph I got. After that the whole atmosphere changed. I still get teary thinking about it.
Re:Speculation... (Score:5, Informative)
It is kind of hard when you realize that you just saw seven people die in front of your eyes.
Just being pedantic, but there's pretty good evidence that some, if not all, survived until impact with the ocean. Vehicle breakup was somewhere around 12Gs, which was survivable. On board oxygen was used, and switches that required pulling out against a spring had been changed to positions indicating an attempt to restore electrical power. Impact with the ocean was estimated to be somewhere around 200Gs. More here: http://history.nasa.gov/kerwin.html [nasa.gov] and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger_disaster#Cause_and_time_of_death [wikipedia.org]
So unless you witnessed the remains of the cabin hitting the water, you didn't see (all) seven people die.
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Re:Speculation... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would someone keep this private and/or secret for so long?
Conspiracy theorists obsess over things more the longer they were 'kept hidden'. Being handed over by a dying man? Well, that's even better. He's got nothing to lose anymore, so OBVIOUSLY releasing it before now would have brought the rage of the Illuminati down on him!
So my theory is that it's a conspiracy against conspiracy theorists.
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As outlined in "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"
Houston... (Score:3, Funny)
70 miles away on Betamax? (Score:2)
Re:70 miles away on Betamax? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not that it would be useful for analysis, but it's useful as documentation of an historical event.
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Except that it was faked, just like the moon landings.
70 miles away on Betamax ... might still be useful (Score:5, Insightful)
Even distant observations might still be useful if it was shot at a different angle than other observations of the event, and as it's in the sky, and you're 70 miles away, it's a different angle.
The problem with video is that it's not as useful for judging the speed of things coming towards you, or away from you, unless it's of a fixed size, it's not tumbling, and you have sufficient resolution. If this had a different plane of the sky as the other 'official' footage, it could be used to test any 3d models that might've been made of the disaster, and if it disproves them, provide input for a new model to be made.
Disclaimer -- I work at a NASA center as a contractor, but I have absolutely nothing to do with the shuttle program.
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To paraphrase xkcd [xkcd.com]:
Movies: "Look, you can clearly see the O-ring giving way there!"
Reality: "We can continue blowing this up and interpolating pixels, but anything we saw would be just our imagination."
Re:70 miles away on Betamax? No shit, Sherlock. (Score:2, Informative)
Mirror (Score:3, Informative)
http://nycaviation.com.nyud.net:8090/2010/01/31/previously-unseen-amateur-video-of-space-shuttle-challenger-disaster/ [nyud.net]
Re:Mirror (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41jq_5ltkno [youtube.com]
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I just watch the video. I can understand why this guy did not publish it. listen well to the audio and you cna here him mention the word 'trouble'. listen to it and you can hear his voice change slowly.
he choose just to put it away and not remember having this bad day. I would even think he might have been a person involved in korea or WW2 and was reliving something that might have been awful.
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Why do NASA engineers drink Coke? (Score:4, Funny)
Because they can't get 7 up.
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How many astronauts can fit in a car? 12: 2 in the front seat 3 in the back seat and 7 in the glovebox.
memories... (Score:5, Interesting)
they herded us into the library of my elementary school to watch the launch. I must have been in 3rd grade or so.
The teachers hurriedly ushered us back into class when the "space ship" was "done". Most of us came away thinking a shuttle launch was supposed to look like that.
Re:memories... (Score:5, Insightful)
I wasn't even born yet - but I had heard of Challenger and the failure, though I had never seen anything like it. It still strikes me as shocking even though I know whats going to happen. I feel the same sadness now as many must have felt over 20 years ago.
Part of me feels like I've just missed one of the greatest eras of mankind. Space Exploration, Cold war ending, Berlin wall coming down and all that. There was a time when Astronauts were hailed as heros, now our generation views them as simple scientists in the ISS. They're lucky if their launches or arrivals get 15 minutes of airtime. Seems like nothing happens unless there is a disaster. I know this is not true, as there are people still doing missions in space (Hubbles maintenance is the first one that comes to mind). It just saddens me that it is no longer "Big News" sending people into space, only when its a disaster. RIP Challenger Crew. May it not only serve as an example of the dangers involved, but also as a reminder of the men and women who brave those dangers for the pursuit of knowledge.
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I wasn't even born yet - but I had heard of Challenger and the failure, though I had never seen anything like it. It still strikes me as shocking even though I know whats going to happen. I feel the same sadness now as many must have felt over 20 years ago.
Part of me feels like I've just missed one of the greatest eras of mankind. Space Exploration, Cold war ending, Berlin wall coming down and all that. There was a time when Astronauts were hailed as heros, now our generation views them as simple scientists in the ISS. They're lucky if their launches or arrivals get 15 minutes of airtime. Seems like nothing happens unless there is a disaster. I know this is not true, as there are people still doing missions in space (Hubbles maintenance is the first one that comes to mind). It just saddens me that it is no longer "Big News" sending people into space, only when its a disaster. RIP Challenger Crew. May it not only serve as an example of the dangers involved, but also as a reminder of the men and women who brave those dangers for the pursuit of knowledge.
That's actually one of the contributing factors to the Challenger explosion. By then, the shuttle launches had become routine, and not seen as quite as big a deal as a few years previous. This led to less scrutiny of the launch conditions and managers in control who saw "successful day's work" == "shuttle going into the air" instead of "shuttle not exploding".
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I hate to say this, but even then, generally astronauts were not viewed as heroes in the mid 80's. The Challenger flight was special though, as there was going to be a school teacher in space for the first time, broadcasting to classrooms live. It was an exciting time. That made the tragedy that much worse. I can understand wanting to have been alive at the time, but I feel the same way about my own circumstances. I was born after all of the Apollo landings. Then I think (at least for Apollo 11) the a
Re:memories... (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought that too when I was twenty and had just lived through the 70's.
Are you sad when an oceanographic research vessel sets off on an expedition without even rating a mention on the local news? When a geological field team pitches it's tents and there isn't breathless 24/coverage on CNN? When a biologist checks into a local hotel before heading out into the woods, and the desk clerk just yawns and goes back to his book?
It's kind of like exploring the interior of the US. Lewis and Clark got all the glory for crossing it the first time - but it wasn't until decades later that surveyors, cartographers, geologists, and biologists fanned out across the country. (The latter two categories are *still* out there exploring.) But they didn't make the history books and don't make the news, they're lucky if they get passing mention on a Discovery Channel special. Nobody will ever raise a statue to them, celebrate the 200th anniversary of their work, or stage a re enactment of their work. Only exploration geeks like myself know the names of some the most famous among them. But they're the ones that got the real work done.
A great deal of the problems with out space program stem from the fact that for so long it's been heavily publicized and politicized, misleading people into believing that if it isn't worthy of news coverage then it isn't worthy of being done. It's past time we washed out hands of these romantic and sterile 'great leaps' and got on with hard, dirty, day in and day out work of engineering and exploration. It's going to be expensive, and slow*, and dangerous - and not at all romantic or glamorous, but we won't make progress until we do.
*Far more expensive and far slower than the 'great leap' showpieces. Which is the main reason we don't do it.
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First of all, I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I am having a slow day at work.
Second of all, I understand that astronauts are not the only piece of the puzzle, in fact, we have many complex missions in space that involve no astronauts at all. Don't make the assumption that I don't.
Thirdly, I never said anything about this being "For the Country". I am not even American, so to take pride in American Astronauts wouldn't make any sense. When I talk about their contributions I mean to mankind as a whole, as a s
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Just because someone came up with a brilliant idea for making the machine work does not make them a hero. What DOES make someone a hero is their willingness to risk their very life for something greater than themself. I'll probably get modded down for quoting the Bible on /., but, "No one has greater love than this, that someone would lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13, HCSB).
Sure, there is something to be said for living a life of sacrifice, giving up something valuable every day for many ye
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Everybody dies. Everybody risks death every day. The risk of death in a space mission is more palpable, and a bit higher, but it is no more real than the risk everybody else takes on a daily basis.
In a world where there is only one kind of death, the inevitable kind, life has no tangible meaning. We're all dead anyway, so what would be the big deal of shooting someone in the head? He or she was already dead, by this reckoning.
Astronauts (and soldiers, rescue workers, etc) willingly enter situations which they believe will result in their own death. The rest of us are absolutely oblivious to the risk of death, such as when we commute, and want to hold people accountable when deaths do occur.
There i
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Terrified... Because the teachers always told you if you did your homework, worked hard, payed attention, and followed the rules then someday YOU could fly to space too!
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I was at work, when someone told me. My response was, "You're shitting me, right?"
We violated several security regulations that day by bringing a portable radio into our closed area and turning it on.
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Me too, and for some illogical reason in the back of my mind, I've blamed him for the Challenger explosion ever since. I know it makes no sense - it's just an odd association.
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I was in high school when this happened - I didn't see the launch live, but I did see the replay on Channel 1 the next day (forced tv news for poor schools).
Thing is - that launch carried the first American school teacher up, and her class was watching the event live on TV (which was of course also being covered) - I can still see that classroom of kids with shock and horror over their faces, and I think some were crying. I'll never forget that.
Even today - watching that video its still leaves me feeling em
I'm old as well (Score:2)
I was a senior in high school when it happened. I was the first person in my high school to know.
Because I snuck out of shop class and went next door to the laundromat to play Pac Man. I was bored and I wanted a Coke and a game. And a TV was on. I remember thinking "Oh cool - a shuttle launch. That'll be fun to watch, should kill some time".
I went back to school, told my shop teacher what I saw. And oddly enough didn't get in any trouble over it.
I too always wind up in prime spots to watch disas
"They got troubles" (Score:2)
A sad understatement in retrospect, RIP Challengers.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Well, I would think death would have taken away that incentive, myself, but then again with current copyright laws maybe not.
RTFS (Score:2)
I would think the man being dead and all would have damped his enthusiasm anyway.
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Uh yeah, or that the living might want to sell the rights to their works and not have a corporation say, "look you're 70, so we'll give you $300 for it, but we're pretty comfortable just waiting for you to die."
70 years after death might be excessive, but in order for the selling price of a work to be related to the value of the work, copy rights need to be somewhat protected from the author's death. I'd suggest a fixed term that is smaller than 21 years. One generation is more than enough of a monopoly o
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Not to ruin the joke, but you can sign away your copyrights to your works anytime you want. Just ask any artist under a RIAA label. He just would have to sign his copyright over to The Space Exploration Archive. They, in turn, would release it to the public domain.
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He just would have to sign his copyright over to The Space Exploration Archive. They, in turn, would release it to the public domain.
That still a vastly better deal. He would earn just as much money (IE nada), but he could show a copy of his own movie to anyone he wanted without having to pay 'the label'.
Now we know... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Elementary School in the 80s (Score:2, Interesting)
It was weird that there were so many tasteless Challenger jokes. Anyone know if this was common all over the country or was it only my neck of the woods?
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It's a basic fact of life that some people cope with disturbing things by making jokes about them.
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Like:
NASA - Need Another Seven Astronauts?
or
What's this button do?
I don't remember any others.
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What color were McAuliffe's eyes?
Blue. One blew this way, the other blew that way.
Where do astronauts spend their vacation?
All over Florida.
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Honey, you feed the dogs - and I'll feed the fish.
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(PLEASE STOP READING NOW IF YOU DO NOT APPROVE OF OFFENSIVE JOKES)
(/OFFENSIVE)
The interesting thing is I've not heard any Haiti jokes. I don't know if that's because I'm not in school now as I was during Challenger, or if there actually aren't as many jokes around.
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The interesting thing is I've not heard any Haiti jokes. I don't know if that's because I'm not in school now as I was during Challenger, or if there actually aren't as many jokes around.
"Too soon" would be my first guess.
"Not very funny" would be my second. I'm trying to picture what one might be about, but I'm not really coming up with much.
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Tasteless jokes, on any topic, are normal almost everywhere. If you ever find a region where tasteless jokes aren't normal, that place isn't normal.
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We had 'em, too. I was in 7th grade at the time, and they were irresistible.
Know why NASA drinks Sprite? They couldn't get 7 up.
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Just who did those jokes harm?
Its one thing to make a joke in front of the families of those lost in the accident, but to make jokes around people with no direct connection really doesn't do any harm.
To answer your question though, they were common in the schools all through central Florida.
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One of the ones in the UK:
"Go on then, let her have a go."
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How did they know Christa McAuliffe had dandruff? They found her head and shoulders.
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I heard quite a few of them. Many were funny as hell. But in situations where people are freaked out, sick humor is the cure for the freakout.
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I'm pretty sure the operative words are "Elementary School".
I'm sure the jokes there are just as tasteless as ever, just about different subjects.
Re:Elementary School in the 80s (Score:5, Insightful)
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Video here... (Score:5, Informative)
On the original article:
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100129/NEWS02/1290397/ [courier-journal.com]
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Oh, man...the obliviousness and the repeating "that doe'n't look right..." over and over again is just heartbreaking.
25 year old Betamax tape still readable (Score:2)
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I would put more faith in optical media outlasting magnetic media like betamax.
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Yeah, but where are you going to find a player, especially with all the DRM?
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Same place you find a betamax player probably.
Just because they aren't the most popular type of device for that purpose doesn't mean they instantly disappear.
People will collect all sorts of crap, and I'm betting you can find a Betamax player in a pawn shop in every large city.
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I have plenty of production CDs that date back to their introduction and they all work just fine. I would expect DVDs and Blu-Rays to last just as long physically. CD-rs are much more prone to dying.
Playing them on obsolescent players might be another story but I would be very surprised to find that every single blu-ray player in the world is going to disappear in the forseeable future. I have a 25-year-old VCR and people still sell/trade/make equipment for Edison wax cylinders.
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local eye doctor (Score:5, Interesting)
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Does anyone know why people post things like this? Is there steganography involved here?
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Well that should all come out in the upcoming trials, right?
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Considering Warner Von Braun was describing trips to Mars and moon bases in the 60's (with existing engineering technology) I'm amazed at our sad lack of progress in space exploration.
Yes and no.
On the one hand, there's nothing we need within reach. The moon and Mars are interesting, sure, but there's no payoff for reaching them. There's no Soviet program to compete against, for starters. Maybe if there was a use for the land once we got there, such as with the expansion to the North American continent, you'd see more of a 'rush'.
The other side of it is - there are just as unique and hard-to-reach places right here on Earth. Antarctica, ocean trenches, the Amazon, and the odd pockets
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Re:Mawkishness... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm Canadian and 29 years old. I don't remember the real event, but I still tear up a bit when I see the Challenger break apart on video. Part of me hopes it won't each time, of all things.
They were carrying humanity's banner into space. They didn't make it. It's as if a top athlete were shot as they carried their nation's banner into an Olympic stadium.
That either resonates with you, or it doesn't.
Hero worship has nothing to do with it.
Because space exploration is fucking awesome. (Score:5, Insightful)
>You Americans are rather melodramatic about this entire event...have you every tried to consider why?
Because space exploration is fucking awesome, represents the height of human achievement, and the timeless urge of mankind to explore.
These people died doing something amazing, and thus they too were amazing.
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