New Antifreeze Molecule Isolated In Alaskan Beetle 108
Arvisp writes with the news of a recently discovered antifreeze molecule in an Alaskan beetle that departs from most commonly identified natural antifreeze. "'The most exciting part of this discovery is that this molecule is a whole new kind of antifreeze that may work in a different location of the cell and in a different way,' said zoophysiologist Brian Barnes, director of the University of Alaska Fairbanks Institute of Arctic Biology and one of five scientists who participated in the Alaska Upis ceramboides beetle project. Just as ice crystals form over ice cream left too long in a freezer, ice crystals in an insect or other organism can draw so much water out of the organism's cells that those cells die. Antifreeze molecules function to keep small ice crystals small or to prevent ice crystals from forming at all. They may help freeze-tolerant organisms survive by preventing freezing from penetrating into cells, a lethal condition. Other insects use these molecules to resist freezing by supercooling when they lower their body temperature below the freezing point without becoming solid."
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Just wear boots and step on them.
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Cryogenics? (Score:5, Interesting)
Could this discovery be developed to make cryogenically preserving people work? As it is right now, the cells rupture during the freezing process -- if the cells remained intact, reviving them would become possible.
Re:Cryogenics? (Score:5, Insightful)
if the cells remained intact, reviving them would become possible.
Well, no more impossible than reviving them shortly after death, without the complications and damage (subtle or extreme) caused by freezing, or decapitating and freezing, or post-mortem whatnot.
I think the greater obstacle is the entire "reviving them after they're dead" bit.
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I think the greater obstacle is the entire "reviving them after they're dead" bit.
It would still have practical applications, such as for long trips through space.
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This is an interesting supposition, but there's no evidence that anything other than a quick revival would result in life being restored. We know that thermodynamically, the body is a veritable panic of high energy formations that are just dying to degrade (literally). We know that cryogenic freezing would suspend many of these processes...but all of the critical ones?
We've not yet begun to imagine what those processes even are, much less say with any certainty that cold temperature will suffice to prevent
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Re:Cryogenics? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is an interesting supposition, but there's no evidence that anything other than a quick revival would result in life being restored. We know that thermodynamically, the body is a veritable panic of high energy formations that are just dying to degrade (literally). We know that cryogenic freezing would suspend many of these processes...but all of the critical ones?
We've not yet begun to imagine what those processes even are, much less say with any certainty that cold temperature will suffice to prevent them over a sufficiently long period of time.
Quite the opposite, actually. There is evidence [newsweek.com] that in cases of cardiac arrest (where the body is generally healthy aside from the fact that the heart has stopped), slow revival can allow for a higher success rate after longer periods without oxygen, because the cells themselves only die hours after cessation of blood flow. If you read to page 2 of that link, you see that induced hypothermia is sometimes used precisely because it does help slow the process of cell death which follows clinical death. Granted, as far as I'm aware, we don't know that cryogenic freezing would suspend all of such processes, but the state of research in this area is much farther along than you seem to think.
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The current understanding is that the ischemia (time without circulation) by itself isn't that damaging. The real damage is called reperfusion injury. When blood flow resumes, the byproducts of anaerobic metabolism and the associated free radicals start circulating in mass and causing havoc.
Both Alcor and Suspended Animation's perimortem cryopreservation protocols include medications believed to help reduce reperfusion injury.
Disclaimer: I am a funded Option 2 member of the Cryonics Institute.
Re:Cryogenics? (Score:5, Insightful)
This opens up a really gray area in terms of medical ethics. Here:
There are many documented cases of people being revived after prolonged (over one hour) 'death' caused by exposure to cold with few side-effects. However, and this is a BIG however- those people were "killed" by the cold; that is, they did not fall victim to leukemia and suddenly die, falling into icy water.
So...
The obvious(?) answer is to freeze people who are *near* death. Well, that's kind of murder/euthanasia according to the laws on the books. Without that particular issue, yeah, this would work great. But we'd have to come to accept this as preservation instead of euthanasia. We could work it until the chances of coming out of it alive were the same as surviving open-heart surgery or something comparable, but I think there would still be that mental/emotional block. Not to mention that critically-ill/hospice patients are already fragile. "Gramp is still alive but we're going to freeze him," still has a funeral feel. The person is, in effect, dying until revived when whatever criteria were met. If we don't cure cancer (for example) in our lifetime, then that *is* a funeral for the patient's family and friends.
-b
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This opens up a really gray area in terms of medical ethics
Think about the problems in the in the legal arena:
1) Gramps is still alive.
2) Gramps always voted Democrat.
3) Therefore...
4) Profit!
Oh wait, it's already been done.
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maybe we could put some kind of death panel in place to streamline the process.
That's just the beginning of ethical dilemmas. (Score:2)
Because barring some economic revolution (likely only presaged by the discovery of insanely cheap inexhaustible low-impact energy source), the costs of keeping people in a state of suspended animation are going to be an agonizing issue. The space for keeping people alone could to be an issue, let alone the costs of attentive and professional maintenance techs and medical staff, and of course, refrigeration. I think at a minimum we're talking about Manhattan apartment prices and possible continual hospital s
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An extremely amusing, tongue-in-cheek short movie about the problem you are talking about is the Norwegian "Cold and Dry".
If you have a chance to see it at some festival or perhaps find it somewhere on the net, I recommend it http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1223897/ [imdb.com].
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But we'd have to come to accept this as preservation instead of euthanasia.
Let's start thinking about accepting it when someone actually succeeds in thawing out and reanimating a corpsicle. Sofar, I've only heard of people being turned into eerily life-like ice busts of their former selves. I'll believe it when I see it, until then I think this discussion is about as useful as discussing close encounter of the third kind protocols.
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>I think the greater obstacle is the entire "reviving them after they're dead" bit.
I tried reviving someone before they were dead, and they got mightily annoyed with me! I recommend waiting until they are dead or unconscious before trying it out.
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Isn't the whole point of cryogenics was to keep the body frozen long enough to overcome that obstacle?
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and even once you've solved that problem, you have to overcome difficulties of having your head whacked like a baseball by the staff of the cryogenic company.
Re:Cryogenics? (Score:4, Insightful)
Rapid freezing of tissue should act in a similar fashion. THe problem of course is being able to freeze tissue at the rate required to form the glass-like phase of ice. I suspect that this antifreeze molecule may work in cryogenic preservation if it shows low toxicity/immune response from the host. Something to keep in mind about frozen tissue as well is the fact that even at these extremely low temperatures, chemical reactions that degrade the sample still occur so there is a limit to how long even the most sturdy cells (like cancer cells) can be stored. If the tissue is frozen for too long of a time, revival may prove to be unlikely or even impossible.
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Re:Cryogenics? (Score:5, Informative)
Cryonics does not freeze tissue. The current method involves vitrification, not freezing. Vitrification is an ice-free process in which more than 60% of the water inside cells is replaced with protective chemicals. This completely prevents freezing during deep cooling. Instead of freezing, molecules just move slower and slower until all chemistry stops at the glass transition temperature (approximately -124C). Unlike freezing, there is no ice formation or ice damage in vitrified tissue. Blood vessels have been reversibly vitrified, and whole kidneys have been recovered and successfully transplanted after cooling to -45C while protected with vitrification chemicals.
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Does that mean we'll finally be able to travel to Tau Ceti and give the Race a taste of it's own medicine?
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No, nothing here would cause cryogenics to become economically viable. What motivation would future generations have to unthaw you? They already have your money.
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You've clearly never basked in my awesomeness.
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What motivation would future generations have to unthaw you? They already have your money.
Have you looked at our Federal deficit lately? Future generations will unthaw us so they can sick their debt collectors on us ;)
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Y3K? COBOL programmers could be very valuable.
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It would be fun to proclaim in a loud voice: "Welcome to the world of tomorrow!"
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It will be a boon to all involved.
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Long-term memories, on the other hand, are maintained by more stable and permanent changes in neural connections
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Here's something I have been thinking about recently, which relates to cryogenic freezing:
First, let's assume the brain stores memories in some form of physical structures (it sounds a stretch, but it's been theorised by some). Whether that is in RNA, or in some unknown physical property. Speaking in favour of this is certain inherited behaviour in animals - and even humans, like fear of spiders, and the ability of babies to see whether a dog is snarling or not. From the 'physical storage' perspective, producing computer networks similar to brains is theoretically very plausible - it's like cutting an unfathomably complex car in slices, gradually understanding how it works, and then building one yourself.
The problem with "physical storage" is: Some people have photographic memory of their entire lives.
This seems to be incorrect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory [wikipedia.org]
Eivind.
Frozen for the Voyage (Score:1)
Yes well maybe sorta. Let's find out.
The trick might be that you would have to have a special GM modified (species)
of human with these (and perhaps other) antifreeze proteins inserted in their DNA.
This already works for plants: mammal data, not so good.
Simple transfusion of these in the blood of a normal human probably would
never work (but is being explored to preserve organs)
And no guarantees about your brain making the trip to cold storage and back
intact. We wont ask much of you when you get to Jupiter.
53
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That is exactly what this new molecule does. The beetle actually freezes at minus 18 degrees Fahrenheit, and survives all the way down to minus 100. The chemical make up up the molecule is similar to the makeup of a cell membrane. Apparently if it was made up of mostly proteins like more common anti-freeze molecules, it would be too large according to TFA.
"UAF graduate student and project collaborator Todd Sformo found that the Alaska Upis beetle, which has no common name, first freezes at about minus 18.5
buffer that (Score:2)
If these beetles contain corrosion inhibitor molecules to, it'd be perfect for the radiator of my V8 Leyland P76, SQ-36 is getting damned expensive these days.
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> Could this discovery be developed to make cryogenically preserving people work?
No, but it is another step in that direction.
> As it is right now, the cells rupture during the freezing process
This isn't completely correct. The current state of the art causes significant dehydration of cells, and very few of them actually rupture during freezing. With vitrification, this damage is reduced even further as tissues become super-viscuous (like glass) instead of freezing.
The $64,000 problem with working
wait... (Score:3, Informative)
"ice crystals in an insect or other organism can draw so much water out of the organism's cells that those cells die"
I thought the main problem was that the ice crystals both become sharp (like a crystal) and grow a bit in volume (ice being less dense than water) -- so the ice would burst out of the cell ravangin the cell walls and everything else at the same time. ...but the leading idea to save the cell was to pull a treefrog -- have a protein that expells the water from the cell, freeze drying the cell, so it was not damaged and in theory would take water back up again at warmer temps, without said ice crystal damage...
For the record, i can't RTFA from where i'm posting.
Re:wait... (Score:5, Funny)
For the record, i can't RTFA from where i'm posting.
Well of course not. This is Slashdot, after all.
Re:wait... (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately the summery took this bit drectly from TFA and it is as you'd suspect, technically incorrect. Ice breaks open the cells (lysing them) which causes the cell contents to spill out of the cell into whatever medium they are in. This quite predictably, kills the cells. However, ice that forms extremely rapidly forms a glass-like phase of ice that does less harm to the cells. The interesting things about this new antifreeze molecule are that 1) it's not a protein; it's a fairly simple molecule and 2) it's lipophillic (tends to hang around fatty things like cell membranes) which makes it a very useful discovery in terms of biological antifreeze molecules.
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Of course this is but the latest anti-freeze that is found in nature.
Having spent some time on Alaskan Glaciers I frequently saw ice worms, especially on cold rainy days that washed snow cover away. These things live their entire life at zero C, or within 3 or 4 degrees thereof.
Locals win a lot of bets with tourists, who simply don't believe them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesenchytraeus_solifugus [wikipedia.org]
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF19/1918.html [alaska.edu]
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"so the ice would burst out of the cell ravaging the cell membranes and everything else at the same time." Plants have cell walls, animals have cell membranes.
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"so the ice would burst out of the cell ravaging the cell membranes and everything else at the same time." Plants have cell walls and cell membranes, animals only have cell membranes.
FTFY
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YES! (Score:5, Funny)
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Yeah but then there is that gross layer of skin stuck to the pole and your tongue is sore for days.... I would not know this from personal experience er ummm I was kid leave me alone!!! lol
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Well they could try removing the child with dynamite
Already done (Score:2)
http://www.tv.com/mythbusters/snow-special/episode/1056466/recap.html [tv.com]
Not every myth has to have an explosion, just every episode.
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Yeah its worse.... lol
I have 2 video's that may be informative on the matter Muhahahaha!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADiZpOPRzFo [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fj37OTTmm4 [youtube.com]
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Most people carry a repository of warm water (plus other stuff) in their bladder for just such an occasion! And if you can't aim well enough then ask a friend to help.
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It doesn't have to be warm water per se. It just needs to be warm, and have mostly water. With that in mind, I'll say: Point upwards.
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=P seems like the particularly appropriate smiler for this post.
Geez (Score:2)
Am I the only one... (Score:2)
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Ew, this oxygen molecule I just breathed had previously passed through a sea slug, a mosquito, AND microsoft's main office. I think I am going to be sick.
Some reading for you (Score:2)
Enjoy!
Bonus reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin [wikipedia.org]
On the down side... (Score:2, Funny)
...the beetles have no protection against boil-over.
Small ice crystals are (Score:1)
small
So this is why Volkswagen Beatles were "cool" (Score:2)
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TFA (Score:2)
New Antifreeze Molecule Isolated In Alaska Beetle
Scientists have identified a novel antifreeze molecule in a freeze-tolerant Alaska beetle able to survive temperatures below minus 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Unlike all previously described biological antifreezes that contain protein, this new molecule, called xylomannan, has little or no protein. It is composed of a sugar and a fatty acid and may exist in new places within the cells of organisms.
"The mo
New organic anti-freeze (Score:5, Funny)
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At first when I read the title, I thought mainly the same thing. "Oh great, now there are going to be gigantic nasty farms of these beetles in order to fill every car with cheap, organic antifreeze."
The image was so horrifying... I can't think of a better place to be tortured to death than under a pile of Alaskan beetles in a beetle farm. Maybe it will happen in Saw 31.
Science beats nature (Score:3, Funny)
I used to drive a 1963 Beetle. They don't need antifreeze!
Pardon me, have you any Grey Molecules? (Score:1)
"Hi, can I use your molecules for several months?"
northern new york state, february (Score:2)
its been below zero outside for weeks, snow is piled high. working on this house with sunken foot high wells for the basement windows, requiring you to clean out the snow and leaves that often gather in the wells, so it doesn't break the windows or leak water inside. so i'm yanking out this snow and compacted ice and leaves accumulated, and underneath, half frozen in the ice, is a dead toad. sad
then the fucker kicks me
absolutely blew my mind. well below zero in february. half frozen in ice. i put him back i
air-cooled (Score:1, Funny)
I believe the Beetle (at least the real type 1) was air-cooled, so it did not contain any antifreeze.
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Antifreeze/coolant is only used in watercooled engines