Scientists Levitate Mice for NASA 237
sterlingda writes to tell us that scientists have built a mouse-levitating superconducting magnet, working on behalf of NASA to study variable levels of gravity. The group hopes to ascertain what physiological impacts prolonged exposure to microgravity might have. "Repeated levitation tests showed the mice, even when not sedated, could quickly acclimate to levitation inside the cage. After three or four hours, the mice acted normally, including eating and drinking. The strong magnetic fields did not seem to have any negative impacts on the mice in the short term, and past studies have shown that rats did not suffer from adverse effects after 10 weeks of strong, non-levitating magnetic fields."
bipolar mice? (Score:5, Funny)
are some of them north-oriented and some south?
can you make a compass out of them?
if you put one of those mickeys near a HDD, does it erase some of the data?
and finally, where do you find ferrous-enriched cheese to feed them?
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I wonder if it hurts the mice to be lifted by their livers. I wonder if the liver warms and cooks while they're still alive.
You could satisfy your curiosity by simply reading the article.
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I wonder if it hurts the mice to be lifted by their livers. I wonder if the liver warms and cooks while they're still alive.
You could satisfy your curiosity by simply reading the article.
Is this where we say, "You must be new here." ;)
Re:bipolar mice? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:bipolar mice? (Score:5, Interesting)
Scientists Levitate Miss USA
That would be something... Maybe they can just levitate that dress...
Re:bipolar mice? (Score:5, Funny)
Ok... I know I should be more attentive but when I first read that headline I thought;
Scientists Levitate Miss USA
I personally believe that U.S. scientists are unable to do so because, um, some scientists out there in our nation don't have magnets and, uh, I believe that our, uh, research like such as, uh, Caltech and, uh, the Harvard and everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should, uh, our research over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, should help Caltech and should help the Harvard and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future.
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Re:bipolar mice? (Score:5, Funny)
Why does everyone think it's normal for mice, to eat partially digested and rotten (with the help of bacteria) cow milk? What do you think they do without humans? Suck on tits of dead cows? ^^
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I don't think anyone thinks it's normal but from what my "experimentation" (mouse traps in the attic) seems to indicate, they certainly do like it. Of course, peanut butter works far better.
[Queue: "Why does everyone think it's normal for mice to eat mashed up, mechanically processed peanuts...]
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Why does everyone think it's normal for mice, to eat partially digested and rotten (with the help of bacteria) cow milk?
Yes, it's very unusual for a scavenger to like processed food.
Re:bipolar mice? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why does everyone think it's normal for mice, to eat partially digested and rotten (with the help of bacteria) cow milk? What do you think they do without humans? Suck on tits of dead cows? ^^
For that matter, why does anyone think it's normal for humans to eat cow secretions?
Re:bipolar mice? (Score:5, Informative)
For that matter, why does anyone think it's normal for humans to eat cow secretions?
Ah; now that's a more interesting one. Once upon a time it wasn't normal [bbc.co.uk] however, (almost certainly, unless you are a freak or are Chinese) you and your genetically dominant have been taking advantage of a recent gene mutation [scientificamerican.com] to make that normal.
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Oh boy, you can’t believe how much I do agree on that one.
But why does anyone think preparations like white flour, sugar or that liquid of heat-wrecked proteins called "UHT-milk" (no matter from what mammal) are even food?
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True, except the horrible taste of course.
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I eat cheese all the time, and I feel perfectly normooooo.
Re:bipolar mice? (Score:5, Informative)
That's begging the question. By definition, whatever humans do as a species is ipso facto *normal*. What is considered normal will change over time though.
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That's begging the question. By definition, whatever humans do as a species is ipso facto *normal*. What is considered normal will change over time though.
Stop right there... http://begthequestion.info/ [begthequestion.info]
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What doesn't give energy/nutrition will kill if eaten exclusively. If you ate only grass for long enough, you would be dead. Just because it isn't in ten minutes, doesn't mean it falls on the not-dead side. Unless you adapt to digesting grass sufficiently before you stave to death.
Life's great, ain't it.
Re:bipolar mice? (Score:4, Informative)
I have kept mice as pets and while they will eat cheese they prefer nuts,fruits and breads.
Re:bipolar mice? (Score:4, Interesting)
rotten? cheese is made with help of enzyme, fruit juice can be used. not all cheeses are ripened with bacteria
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Why does everyone think it's normal for mice, to eat partially digested and rotten (with the help of bacteria) cow milk?
It's called "anthropomorphism".
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Some of them behaved with excessive enthusiasm, and then couldn't be bothered to breathe.
Others turned their back on Disney and struck out in a protest for independent Rodent rights.
Been done before... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Been done before... (Score:4, Informative)
From TFA:
Other researchers have made live frogs and grasshoppers float in mid-air before, but such research with mice, being closer biologically to humans, could help in studies to counteract bone loss due to reduced gravity over long spans of time, as might be expected in deep space missions or on the surfaces of other planets.
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Well it has been done before but this is the first mammal and largest animal so far and is closer to a human than a frog.
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it can't be the first time for a mammal. It specifically mentions past experaments with rats.
Sounds fun! (Score:2, Funny)
When will this scale up to human size? I wanna play!
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Probably, but so will the magnetic field. It says the mouse weighs 10 grams, so a ~10000x increase in the magnetic field might get rather nasty.
Re:Sounds fun! (Score:4, Informative)
That isn't how it works. The same fieild intensity that levitates a mouse would levitate a person. However, the volume throughout which the field is of constant intensity would have to be scaled up and the energy stored in the field is proportional to volume so your number may not be too far off if seen as a measure of the size and cost of the magnet.
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Re:Sounds fun! (Score:5, Informative)
With 16T, you can levitate an object of any size so long as it predominantly consists of water. It's not like a 1g frog will float, but a 2g frog will fall in the same magnetic field. The reason why the things floated are small is because its easier to make small magnetic fields. If you have a current going around a loop, and you double the radius of that loop, your peak magnetic field drops by a factor of 4. You do not need 150kT to levitate a human. You just need a magnet that is physically larger with the same field strength and geometry.
One more thing. It's not just the magnitude of the magnetic field that controls whether something will levitate or not. The key is that the magnetic field gets weaker as you move up. Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] tells me that levitation power is proportional to B*dB/dZ. (the magnitude of the field times how quickly it diminishes as you move upward) That is to say, if you had a 150kT magnetic field, and it was constant everywhere, you wouldn't float in it.
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Maybe near a neutron star you could find a proper spot to test this. Damn we need spaceflight - oh wait! Just getting into orbit costs you a few million whereas your big fat magnet costs what? Maybe you are better off with plain old free fall in an orbit or the vomit commet.
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What about being tumbled in the dryer?
And if we just shrank people down to the size of flying frogs...
For those who like pics... (Score:3, Informative)
Looks more like a cheese shredder than a large, scientifically purposed apparatus.
I've done similar experiments before... (Score:5, Funny)
The dead squirrels did not seem to suffer adverse effects while they were levitating, though it must be said they were in this state only for a few moments and there were adverse effects after they struck their respective targets.
Re:I've done similar experiments before... (Score:5, Funny)
...using a 3-man slingshot and dead squirrels. The dead squirrels did not seem to suffer adverse effects while they were levitating, though it must be said they were in this state only for a few moments and there were adverse effects after they struck their respective targets.
Dear sir or ma'am, I am a colleague of yours in the respected field of Airborne Necromancy and would like to see your records and raw data. Specifically I am interested to see trajectory and ballistics data on said deceased squirrel and would like to know targets, their reaction and splash radius (if any). Also, I require data on the haired appendage attached to the posterior of the squirrel and would like to know if it emitted a satisfactory trailing manifold while said furry body traveled along its arc. Also, if you have raw data on the reactions of homo sapiens of the homogametic sex upon realization of said ballistic squirrel, I would be eternally grateful for it and any footage of shear horror and/or terror. I look forward to peer reviewing your research in next month's issue of Bodies in Flight. Good day!
Re:I've done similar experiments before... (Score:5, Funny)
Unfortunately data collected on targetted facial responses is strictly limited to third-party hear-say information since the data collection stopped shortly after levitation was achieved due to personal safety risks to the research team if they were to have remained on-site. The time period of this research predates the "YouTube" era, and indeed no video recording devices were available that wouldn't prove too bulky for safe movement during the personnel evacuation window.
While my submission cannot be considered authoritative in this subject by peer review, it is refreshing to see other researchers interested in this field of study.
Good day to you and keep your head down!
Re:I've done similar experiments before... (Score:5, Funny)
Your unwillingness to share crucial data to our pain-staking squirrel research not only upsets me but mars the very foundation upon which we have built our esteemed ideals and research. Furthermore your lack of savvy in the sub-field of post experiment egress and planning belie your innocence and naive dabbling in such a rewarding and rich genre of science.
In short, I recommend you put the squirrel slingshot down before you fail to hurt someone and leave the research to those of us properly equipped with chinchilla Gatling guns. Your work may make for a great show on the Discovery Channel but there's no place for you in my school.
Re:I've done similar experiments before... (Score:5, Funny)
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But one must say, that levitation because of gravitational effects is not the same as that of (electro)magnetic effects. One can not use the one to study the other, for example. (Although some "scientists" attempt it nonetheless.)
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Really? That sounds pretty cool. How did you get the dead squirrels to operate the slingshot?
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Not sure about the squirrels, but others have great success putting Linux on dead badgers [strangehorizons.com]. That may be cross-compilable to squirrels, but you'd definitely need the memory stick version, just from space concerns.
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's... (Score:2, Funny)
No video? (Score:5, Interesting)
Flying mice on youtube would bring more media coverage of this.
Cheesey Jokes (Score:3, Funny)
Thats Gouda
but it'll be cheddar when they make it work on humans. Then it would be truly Marble-ous.
Quantum levitation (Score:4, Funny)
What happens when you create a quantum superposition of levitating mice?
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...Funding?
you hope?
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That's because of entanglement?
no side effects?! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:no side effects?! (Score:5, Informative)
B-b-b-but, EM radiation! (Score:2, Funny)
Sure, but put a cell phone next to their cage, and they have cancer in a week, right!?!
Re:B-b-b-but, EM radiation! (Score:4, Informative)
Cell phones operate at different frequencies and different power levels than the apparatus used in this experiment, so the lack of adverse effects on the mice does not really say anything about the effects of a cell phone on mice (or humans).
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The field in this experiment isn't EM radiation at all. It's just a (really big) magnet. There is no time varying component (it has no frequency) so it does not have an electric component (look up Maxwell's equations). This has as much to do with EM radiation as a cup of water on your desk has to do with the waves on the ocean.
That said, if you move a wire through it, you'll generate one hell of an electic field, but only while the strength of the magnetic field through the wire is changing.
Re:B-b-b-but, EM radiation! (Score:4, Interesting)
That said, if you move a wire through it, you'll generate one hell of an electic field, but only while the strength of the magnetic field through the wire is changing.
Wait, if you move a wire through an unchanging field (perpendicularly), you'll induce a current, right? You'll also induce one if you hold a wire still in a field whose strength is changing.
On a related note, axons are in many ways like long wires. Move around in a high magnetic field, and you'll notice odd effects. It's more of a problem for people than for mice -- our axons run longer, and so inductive effects are stronger.
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Axons aren't quite like wires, though. Its been awhile, but don't they use current via ion channels, and not an actual current? When activated they suck up a bunch of positive ions (I think calcium, might be wrong though), and expel the negative ones (potassium, might be wrong though) creating a charge. They aren't llike little wires.
If they were, I imagine that MRI's would be much more interesting though.
Re:B-b-b-but, EM radiation! (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, but they do get interesting, if you disable the rate-of-field-change safeties that are integrated into clinical scanners. Our lab does high-resolution MR imaging in small animals, and if we don't disable those safeties, we can't get the gradients we need. (In this field, "gradient" refers to a varying magnetic field that's overlaid on the nominally constant and uniform field from the main magnet.)
Even without involving the gradients, if you move your head too quickly near the bore of our 7T magnet, it can have very odd effects. I'm not sure of the mechanism, but I've assumed it has to do with currents induced in axons. They aren't wires, but they are conductive channels, and as Volta showed, they do respond to purely electrical stimulation.
(I hope someone better versed in MR physics will chime in here. I'm just a lowly computer guy, relying on what I've soaked up from my co-workers due to curiosity and overheard discussions.)
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Wait, if you move a wire through an unchanging field (perpendicularly), you'll induce a current, right? You'll also induce one if you hold a wire still in a field whose strength is changing.
A voltage is induced only when the magnetic flux (aka, the strength of the magnetic field) in the wire changes. If the wire is moving perpendicular to the field in such a way that the wire 'sees' a constant magnetic field strength (in theory), there will be no voltage. In practice this is very difficult to do (the wire will move at least a little bit).
Per the definition you are correct that a time-varying magnetic field will also induce a voltage (this is how the secondary on a transformer works). Howeve
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No, not the strength per se. If a moving wire crosses lines of [constant or varying] magnetic flux, a voltage is induced in it.
Example: imagine a large circular magnet with a narrow slot that forms a pair of parallel poles. The fiend strength in the central region of the poles is essentially constant (and perpendicular to the plane of the poles). I
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All that is required is a change in flux, and a wire moving through a constant magnetic field is a change in flux. You can think of a 'change in area times field over time' as 'length times field times change in position over time'. The wiki page on Faraday's law of induction [wikipedia.org] shows how you arrive at the velocity-based component of induced emf.
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Yes you're right. What actually induces the current isn't exactly the magnetic field, it's magnetic flux [wikipedia.org]. The induced voltage is proportional to the cha
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On the other hand: Put them in a microwave and shoot them with a industrial-strength laser, and they will not have cancer too... because they will be a heap of ashes.
I understand your argument and I specifically agree with it. But by putting yourself in the opposite extreme position, you're not much better than them. Even if it happens for dubious humoristic purposes. ^^
Re:B-b-b-but, EM radiation! (Score:5, Funny)
This was a static field. A static field is like resting your head on the floor. An oscillating field is like beating your head against the floor.
Of course, nothing will stop some people from claiming that strong static magnetic fields cause cancer. Maybe they can fight it out with the people who say that they cure disease.
Electrocution? (Score:2)
Hmm, If I remember correctly from my physics class, any time electrons move through a magnetic field, don't they produce electric forces in a direction perpedicular to the motion through the magnetic field? Or something like that. Anyhow, electric generators, I remember, are just coils of wire that you rotate inside a strong magnetic field.
So, the question is, could exposure to magnetic fields strong enough to levitate you, also cause electric currents in your body, if you move through the field, strong eno
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Hmm, If I remember correctly from my physics class, any time electrons move through a magnetic field, don't they produce electric forces in a direction perpedicular to the motion through the magnetic field?
An electrical current generates a magnetic field surrounding it. In the presence of another magnetic field, the two push against each other (as magnets do) and produce a physical force on the condustor.
And as TFA mentions, rats suffered no ill effects from long-term exposure to strong (probably several Tesla) magnetic fields. It is possible that intensely strong (hundreds or thousands of Tesla) could cause issues, though, but that's what research and experiments are meant to determine.
got half of it right (Score:3, Funny)
No no no, bad scientist. I told you to work on flying cars, not flying mice.
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I would rather see flying mice. Come to think of it, that is essentially what bats are, so nature beat us to it,
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Mice are omnivores. They will happily eat insects The Northern Grasshopper Mouse, for example, has a diet that consists almost totally of insects.
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Why? Bats are mostly herbivorous.
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All of them.
They eat insects and smaller rodents.
Right... (Score:2)
past studies have shown that rats did not suffer from adverse effects after 10 weeks of strong, non-levitating magnetic fields.
Right. Non-levitating has no negative effects in the short term. Actual Levitating has no immediate effects in the short term. The effects of levitating magnets in the long term could be catastrophic, and if thats the case I hope we observe it and know not to put ourselves through it.
However, we've seen first hand that astronaughts who don't get exercise in 0 gravity have had some side effects like Atrophy, so I hope they have zero gravity mouse wheels to keep these mice in shape while testing them for prol
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Where's your sense of imagination? If it's zero G, we're not limited to mouse wheels and/or hamster balls. How about a hamster tetrahedron? I mean, not to be one-sided, but surely a mouse mobius strip is the least we could hope for?
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What reason do you have to make such a claim?
How do you expect a mouse wheel to work without gravity? Strap the little guys down with elastic?
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How do you expect a mouse wheel to work without gravity? Strap the little guys down with elastic?
Personally I just place the official scientific-taunting-food-bite to float about 3 inches from where the floating mouse is, sit back, and watch him run!
They are so cute when hungry weightless and scared :D
Obligatory jokes (Score:2)
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When Pigs Fly (Score:2)
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You're late to that party.
Swine Flu.
An interesting experiment (Score:5, Funny)
To be honest with you, when you reach this level of awesome in your experimentation, you don't even need a premise. The NASA scientists could have simply announced that they did it for the lulz and it would be okay.
I think the public would excuse it.
Song in my head... (Score:4, Funny)
"Heeere I come to save the daaaayy.. Mighty Mouse is on his waaaay!!"
Flying mice. Sheesh.
Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky? (Score:2)
Magnetic Field to add Gravity in Space (Score:5, Interesting)
So ... (Score:3, Funny)
... the whole jumping up on a chair and screaming strategy may no longer be effective?
I'd better warn the wife.
Still believe the mice are expermenting on us? (Score:2, Funny)
Ha! Take that Vroomfondel. Try to drop dead of myxomatosis on me will you?!
No Problems Until... (Score:2)
How this works (Score:5, Informative)
Regarding gradients: The gradients used in MRI vary in *position*. Yes in time, as well, but only because they are pulsed. We can ignore ramping issues to first order. Since the field varies as a function of position, when you move around, indeed the flux is changing which can induce currents in looped conductors so as to oppose the change. This is called induction. Many people, my self included, notice a strange sensation when first entering an MRI magnet. This is because the field is only homogeneous over a relatively small volume, outside of which there are once again field gradients (these are different than the intentional field gradients used to obtain an MRI image). It is probably not axons but something in the ear that is picking this up, I am not sure. Also, field strength has *nothing* to do with this effect. It's how fast the field changes as a function of position, i.e. the gradient, combined with the velocity of the pickup object.
Regarding repulsion: Water is diamagnetic. That means that the little spins (i.e. electrons) orbiting the atoms of a water molecule tend to align *against* the applied field direction. These spins will experience a repulsive force, hence the levitation.
Re:Pics? (Score:5, Funny)
Here's your pic [conceptart.org].
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No, they can't mess with their experiment that much.
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you can't just apply this joke to every story... /rolls eyes
I for one welcome our repeating meme overlords.
Re:Seriously, Slashdot? (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot has always been behind the "news" cycle.
This is fine. Most people don't come here for breaking news, they come here for (sometimes) informative, enlightened, or humorous discussion of the article and related topics.
I'll just add that your griping is none of those things. If what you care about is being the first to read about something, then please feel free to go elsewhere. And feel free to not bother with the discussion on Slashdot when the same item is up a day or two later... you won't be missed if what you post is similar to the post I'm responding to.
Oh, and one last thing... Slashdot is a news aggregator. There is very, very little original content in the items posted to the main page. However, it is a community-driven site. If you're unhappy that items come through later here than elsewhere, one thing YOU can do to improve it is to submit articles yourself in a timely manner.
Re:Seriously, Slashdot? (Score:4, Funny)
they come here for (sometimes) informative, enlightened, or humorous discussion of the article and related topics.
I come here for the depressingly predictable jokes. Where's my "I for one..."? Ah, there [slashdot.org] it is.
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In Soviet Slashdot, depressing predictable joke comes for you?
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Re:Seriously, Slashdot? (Score:4, Insightful)
> It seems that these days, slashdot takes all of its news from gizmodo, wired,
> and ars.
And therefor I miss nothing important by not reading those sites while avoiding a great deal of crap.
Re:Seriously, Slashdot? (Score:4, Informative)
This is actually a discussion site, not a news site. We come here for the discourse and the surprisingly effective moderation system.
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No, because they're levitating above the blades.