Happy 30th Birthday, Pioneer 10 170
tlon writes: "Pioneer 10, the spacecraft that brought us the first pictures of Jupiter, turned 30 today. Launched in 1972, the probe is now some 7.4 billion miles away, as it cruises out towards Aldebaran, the eye of Taurus. NASA will attempt to contact the spacecraft today, (it was successfully contacted last year), but the round trip time is over 22 hours. How's that for a ping latency? See Nasa's Pioneer 10 Page for more details."
Ping. (Score:4, Funny)
Could be worse. They could be trying to get to it through @Home.
--saint
Re:Ping. (Score:4, Funny)
Those poor sux0rs just wouldn't know they lost until the next day.
But with the /. effect (Score:1)
Re:Ping. (Score:1)
gm (won't look so good with so many miles on me)
Re:Ping. (Score:2, Informative)
"The signal was loud and clear and I'd like to say this contact worked like a charm," said Larry Lasher, the mission's project manager.
A radio telescope in Spain received the response 22 hours and six minutes after the signal was sent from us on friday.
Cool!
Hah! (Score:1, Redundant)
My ISP does that sitting here on earth. Beat that, NASA!
I think NASA beat everybody with this: (Score:2, Insightful)
Read that last sentence again. Pioneer 10 is likely to become one of the longest lasting things that mankind has ever created. Think deeply.... that is one heavy-duty accomplishment.
Now that is engineering (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I know you're a troll, but... (Score:3, Funny)
Sweat
Re:Oh, really? (Score:2)
And did the pilgrims need the American Indians' help finding America? Any civilization advanced enough to wage a successful war across interstellar distances certainly won't need a roadmap from us to get here. They'll be picking up Gilligan's Island reruns LONG before they find Voyager; so put away the shotgun Wilbur.
-chris
Question (Score:2)
How far are we detectable?
If anyone out there is doing things similar to those that we do should we be hearing them?
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:2)
Yeah, but... (Score:1, Funny)
The biggest plus I can think of that Pioneer 10 has with a car is cruise control. Of course, on Pioneer you can't turn it off.
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:3, Funny)
Happy birthday (Score:1)
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:2)
The reverse may apply, too (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The reverse may apply, too (Score:1)
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:2)
Actually, I seem to remember reading that Pioneer 10 didn't have on-board computers, as in 1969 it was impractical to build a radiation-shielded computer with the space and cost constraints of the Pioneer project.
I couldn't find a description of the Pioneer 10 hardware, so I could be wrong, though. I did find this page [us-tech.com], which is a sort of an interesting piece about how they replaced the PDP-11 which was used to talk to the Pioneer.
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:3, Informative)
Well, what do you know. According to Intel, the Pioneer 10 had a 4004 on board [intel.com]. Neat. So, as the old joke goes, in 1972 it took an Intel 4004 to operate a deep-space probe. In 2002, it takes a GHz PIII to run Windows. Things have gone terribly wrong.
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:1)
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:2)
You mean Mars Surveyor, which is doing a fantastic job and sending back detailed information... or do you mean probes like Galleo and NEAR, which lasted long past their designed missions and went on to perform many extra tasks well past their termination date?
Landing a craft is still risky business... doing flybys is pretty simple in comparison (though still fantastically complicated).
--
Evan
Re:Now that is engineering (Score:1)
Pioneer 10 v. "Bare Budget" Mars Projects (Score:3)
You should really compare Pioneer 10 v. Galileo, Cassini or other, similar-costing, "full QA" projects from NASA. The "better, faster, cheaper" Mars probes that gained a lot of noteriety in their failures are NOT good comparisons based on their cost and lack of equivalent QA/testing.
Simple engineering risk analysis showed NASA that the orders of magnitude in additional cost are worth it to guarantee an over 99% chance of success, versus less than 50% in the BFC approach. NASA will no longer attempt to build probes like those three Mars BFC projects (of which, only one was a success) again.
Google Cache (karma whoring...) (Score:3, Informative)
Enjoy!
google cache (Score:5, Informative)
and
here [google.com]
Klingon Target Fodder (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Yeah? (Score:1)
Today? (Score:2)
How, exactly, is "today" defined? Do they send out a signal at 1AM and hope to get a reply back at 11PM?
Re:Today? (Score:1)
Re:Today? (Score:2)
Actually, I'd say they'd probably wait until the transmitter that is still capable of talking to the probe is 1 hour past being lined up with it, send 'PING', and wait for the earth to go around to the 1-hour-short mark. But that's just me and my illusion of a round Earth speaking.
Wouldn't that make the signal go off at an angle that would never come close to where the probe was? Imagining that the probe is at the 0 degree mark, you would try to get this to work by blasting a signal at the 345 degree mark and then listen for it at the 15 degree mark? With the probe 7.5 billion miles away, basic trig says that you are shooting the beam 4.33 billion miles to the one side of the probe and listen for it 4.33 billion miles to the other side of it. The earth might be rotating, but the beam is taking a straight line path from where you fired it.
I would imagine that you have one ground station send the ping fired at the 0 degree mark and 22 hours later another ground station would be listening for it while lined up at that 0 degree mark or somewhere within a cone of reception. Aren't there some communications satellites set up in places near earth to catch the transmissions of probes like this in case the right listening stations are not lined up, sort of as a relay system?
Re:Today? (Score:1)
That's a whole lotta time! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:That's a whole lotta time! (Score:1)
sure.
the thing is in VACUUM and goes at a CONSTANT velocity.
The probability of it hitting ANYTHING out there is like throwing a stone off of a telsat above europe and hitting a winning lottery ticket.
Re:That's a whole lotta time! (Score:1)
Re:That's a whole lotta time! (Score:1)
Re:That's a whole lotta time! (Score:1)
talk about clear reception.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, the receiving dish is as big as a football field, but still.
It's going where? (Score:1)
Re:It's going where? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's going where? (Score:1, Informative)
IP address? (Score:3, Funny)
Would make a killer proxy tho
I have an idea (Score:2, Interesting)
ok, now bring on the inevitable jokes about a beowolf cluster of probes.
Re:I have an idea (Score:5, Informative)
First, hardware fails occasionally. The probes would have to be able to send their signals back at least two hops in order to avoid having one failed probe "orphan" many others.
Second, the trajectories rely upon a particular alignment of planets. If we sent out probes year after year, they'd end up going in completely different directions.
pioneer 10. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:pioneer 10. (Score:2)
I think the protocol is more along the lines of
PING? [22 hrs later] PONG!
Re:pioneer 10. (Score:2)
-- MarkusQ
Coincidentally.... (Score:1)
Lond distance comms (Score:1, Interesting)
What do they do for communications then? I mean, Pioneer 10 isn't that far away in terms of the space that we know of. And it takes 22hrs to receive a response.
Is there anything that will go faster than radio (light does, but isn't as easy to use I don't think). Even with light, it still takes an extremely long time.
Does anyone know what sort of data rates you can support over these distances, and what kind of mad FEC and other tricks you would have to implement to make a usable system?
I suppose if they do all this going through tunnels that warp time and space, they'll work out something better than conventional radio, it's just that in films, they seem to have things like phones, never mind being a million light years away
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:1)
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:1)
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:2)
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:1)
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:2)
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:1)
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:2)
So radio waves will travel slightly less quickly than visible light.
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:1)
This means that radio transmissions are slower than light transmissions. It wasn't really the issue of the post either, I was interested in fast than light communications
Incidentally, they have known that radio waves travel slower than light for many years. Look up data on radio telescopes.
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:2, Informative)
Now, if they're travelling through different mediums, then their speed is different. An interesting chart showing the different speeds through different mediums can be found here [what-is-th...-light.com].
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:1)
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:3, Interesting)
second, noone has cracked quantum physics enough to discover a way to transmit using another dimension or creating or using wormholes or other FTL technology theories. AS soon as you see proof of multi-dimensional detection, or wormholes, trans-positional quarks, etc.. then I would guess that comms would be the first to follow.
so either you need to wait about 100 years or hope that a major breakthrough in chaos mathematics or quantum physics.
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:2, Informative)
Check out the Relativity and FTL Travel FAQ [purdue.edu] for a better explanation than I can give. I for one hope that Einstein is wrong... the universe is so much more exciting in Star Wars.
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:1)
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:1)
Furthermore, one of us is a pure mathematician and the other an elec eng attempt, so neither of us has a clue about the physics, although we suspect quantum physics probably breaks everything in our cunning little scheme
--
From Phil
Re:Lond distance comms (Score:2)
Ping Time? (Score:1)
dnetc (Score:1)
Or is it just flying through space, 100% idle?
Destinations and manners (Score:1)
Alderaan? Oh, aldebaran... Pardon.
> it was successfully contacted last year), but
> the round trip time is over 22 hours
I remember we shashdotted a C-64 once, but a spacecraft?
*Alderbaran*? (Score:1)
*ducks, runs*
let's hope they don't get this .... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Say in a hundred years... (Score:4, Interesting)
Just a question.
Re:Say in a hundred years... (Score:2)
Re:Say in a hundred years... (Score:1)
One of the most enjoyable parts of reading the DUNE series of books by Frank Herbert is that the Mona Lisa pops up after having been removed from Earth many thousands of years previously.
To ensure Pioneer 10 is not all that's left of us, we need to start crating things up now and storing them off planet.
Re:Say in a hundred years... (Score:1)
Re:Say in a hundred years... (Score:2)
So the same luck of numbers probably protects Pioneer 10, and some of our other probes ...
Re:Say in a hundred years... (Score:2)
We will let them drift. However, once extra-solar system travel becomes dirt cheap, these probes will become tourist traps. Whole shiploads of little brats will go to visit them on field trips. They will become surrounded by porta-potties, discarded hamburger boxes, and T-shirt stands (in all 3 dimensions).
Re:Say in a hundred years... (Score:1)
Leave it out there for this reason: (Score:1)
Read that last sentence again. Pioneer 10 is likely to become one of the longest lasting things that mankind has ever created. Think deeply.... that is one heavy-duty accomplishment. We should leave it out there just for that reason.
Re:Say in a hundred years... (Score:1)
Just an answer.
Scene from a future alien press conference... (Score:4, Funny)
"After much careful studying of the plaque and it's contents we believe we have determined the approximate nature of the message it contains..."
"It says: Get your free porn here!"
Re:Scene from a future alien press conference... (Score:1)
It's probably because 50 + 1 == 50 (cap) and 50 - 1 == 49
Re:Scene from a future alien press conference... (Score:2)
So what's in the ping? Top 10: (Score:4, Funny)
2. Are we there yet
3. Arewe there yet?
4. Arewe there yet?
5. Are we there yet?
6. Arewe there yet?
7. Are we there yet?
8. Are wethere yet?
9. Are we there yet?
10. Are we there yet?
s/billion/million/ (Score:2)
Gravity Mystery (Score:2, Informative)
Pioneer 10 is part of a Gravity Mystery that is yet to be solved. A story about it:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/05/21/gravity.m ystery/ [cnn.com]
Gravity still stumps physicists like almost nothing else. This may be a hint for a new breakthru in our understanding of gravity.
Contact Attempt Sucessful...!! (Score:1)
Contact made! (Score:5, Informative)
If it were going the speed of light... (Score:1)
7,400,000,000 miles = 119,066,000,000 kilometers
speed of light = 299,792,458 meters per second
which equals 299,792.458 kilometers per second
119,066,000,000 / 299,792.458
approximately equals 397,161 seconds
which equals 110.3225 hours
So, if the Pioneer spacecraft were going the speed of light from the beginning, it would have only taken it less than 5 days to get where it is today, 30 years later. Wow! Anyone getting close to inventing speed of light travel yet?
Re:If it were going the speed of light... (Score:3, Interesting)
You're actually off by about a factor of 10.
7.4 billion miles ~= 11.8 billion km
Which would mean that it actually takes 11 hours to get there at the speed of light... just like the radio message sent by NASA that was mentioned in the article. =) Doh!
Am I alone in finding the fact that there was a mistake making distance conversions in a thread about NASA [ucsd.edu] rather funny?
Pioneer 6 (Score:2, Interesting)
Deep-space spacecraft tend to me much longer lived than Earth orbiting ones as they aren't subject to Van-Allen radiation, nasty atomic oxygen effects plus the thermal cycling stresses you get from going from sunshine into shadow and back into sunshine every obit.
whataping (Score:1)
Wow Pioneer is 30, I am a little over that and I almost share a birthday with her and we also talk to our family once a year...=)
ping... (Score:1)
http://beldin.nu/pioneer_10_ping.jpg [beldin.nu]
UPDATE 12:05EST - CONTACT MADE (Score:3, Informative)
we should use it as a backup (Score:2)
On a lighter note, what are the taxes for running a business out of a satelite flying some 7.4 billion km away from earth in space? Could we have a beow... sorry
Quantum Entanglement is instant (Score:1)
Re:Speed of light is too slow. (Score:4, Funny)
CS - Light speed to slow?
DH - That's right we'll have to go straight to Ludacrious Speed!
CS - <shock> Ludacrious speed! Sir, we've never gone that fast before!
DH - WHAT's THE MATTER COLONEL SANDERS?!? CHICKEN?!?
CS - <voice cracking> Prepare ship! </voice cracking>Perpare ship for Ludacrious speed! Close all shops in the mall, secure all animals in the zoo! Cancel the three ring circus!
DH - <grabbing microphone> Give me that you petty excuse for an officer! Now hear this! Ludacrious speed!
CS - Sir, you better buckle up!
DH - Awww, bucke this! Ludacrious speed! GO!
****************
What's truly sad is it's all from memory...
about that golden plague on the side (Score:1)
I feel a little uneasy that the furthest probe has a picture of naked humans on it (re: "the plague"). Wouldn't it be more telling about us if the couple was shown wearing a tuxedo and an evening gown instead of raw flesh? The way they did it, it seems like we are more anxious to talk about our physical bodies rather than our minds and esthetics.
Formal-wear would be more dignifying than flashing Neptune IMO. (Although that babe has really nice hips and sexy long hair.)
Or even an unshaven guy with a beer belly and a woman in curlers and a bathrobe. IOW, how we *really* look.
He he, I wonder how the plague would look if the Taliban sent up the probe.
Re:22 hours? Only a light day!?!?! (Score:1)
( 11h each direction ), but its still
great!
LIVE LONG AND PROSPER PIONEER 10
we will see you next year
Re:The Wonders! (Score:1)